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Rec.Food.Veg's Most Frequently Asked Questions List --------------------------------------------------- CONTENTS: 1 Definitions 1.1 Words frequently used in rec.food.veg 1.2 Other confusing terms 1.3 Terms confused with vegetarianism 2 Frequently Asked Questions 2.1 What is gelatin? Is there any alternative to it? 2.2 What can be substituted for eggs? 2.3 What is rennet? Where is it found? How can it be avoided? 2.4 What is miso? 2.5 What is tofu? 2.6 What is tempeh? 2.7 What is TVP? 2.8 What is seitan? 2.9 Can you feed a cat a vegetarian diet? a dog? 2.10 What is Nutritional Yeast? / Which ones provide B12? 2.11 Are there vegan marshmellows available? 2.12 What airlines serve vegetarian meals? 2.13 Should I be worried about getting enough protein on a vegetarian diet? 2.14 What about Vitamin B12 on a vegan diet? 2.15 How is "vegan" pronounced? 2.16 Can I eat at fast food places like McDonalds or Taco-Bell? 2.17 Is maple syrup vegetarian/vegan? 2.18 Is beer or other alcoholic beverages vegetarian/vegan? 2.19 Is sugar vegetarian/vegan? 3 Other sources on the Net 4 Addresses and Phone Numbers 4.1 Vegetarian and Vegan groups 4.2 Cruelty-free products information 4.3 Non-leather Products information 4.4 Mail Order Book Outlets 5 Recommended Literature 5.1 Cookbooks 5.2 Non-Fiction 5.3 Travel & Restaurant Books 5.4 Periodicals 6 Animal Rights Organizations 7 Issues 7.1 Rainforest Beef -- two views 7.2 Hidden Animal Products 7.3 Names of animals versus names of animal based foods -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 1 Definitions 1.1 DEFINITIONS of words frequently used in this newsgroup... Vegan: excludes animal flesh (meat, poultry, fish and seafood), animal products (eggs and dairy), and usually excludes honey and the wearing and use of animal products (leather, silk, wool, lanolin, gelatin...). The major vegan societies all disallow honey, but some "vegans" still use it. Some "vegans" also refuse to eat yeast products. Dietary Vegan: follows a vegan diet, but doesn't necessarily try and exclude non-food uses of animals. Vegetarian: usually broken down further into OVO-LACTO, OVO, and LACTO. Vegetarians may or may not try and minimize their non food use of animals like vegans. Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian: same as VEGAN, but also eats eggs and milk products. This is the most 'popular' form of Vegetarianism. Ovo Vegetarian: Same as VEGAN, but also eats eggs. Lacto Vegetarian: Same as VEGAN, but also eats milk products. Veggie -- Shortened nick-name for a VEGETARIAN; often includes VEGANs. Strict vegetarian: originally meant vegan, now can mean vegan or vegetarian. The term 'Vegetarian' was coined in 1847. It was first formally used on September 30th of that year by Joseph Brotherton and others, at Northwood Villa in Kent, England. The occasion being the innaugural meeting of the Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom. The word was derived from the Latin 'vegetus', meaning whole, sound, fresh, lively; (it should not be confused with 'vegetable-arian' - a mythical human whom some imagine subsisting entirely on vegetables but no nuts, fruits, grains etc!) Prior to 1847, non-meat eaters were generally known as 'Pythagoreans' or adherents of the 'Pythagorean System', after the ancient Greek 'vegetarian' Pythagoras. The original definition of 'vegetarian' was "with or without eggs or dairy products" and that definition is still used by the Vegetarian Society today. However, most vegetarians in India exclude eggs from their diet as did those in the classical Mediterranean lands, such as Pythagoras. ---------------------------------------- 1.2 Definitions of some other confusing terms Semi-Vegetarian: Eats less meat than average person. See also PSEUDO-VEGETARIAN. Pseudo-Vegetarian: Claims to be vegetarian, but isn't. Often used by VEGETARIANS to describe SEMI-VEGETARIANs, and PESCETARIANs. Pescetarian: Same as VEGETARIAN, but also consumes fish. (often is a person avoiding factory-farming techniques...) See also PSEUDO-VEGETARIAN. Fruitarian: Same as VEGAN, but only eats foods that don't kill the plant (apples can be picked without killing plant, carrots cannot). Vegetable Consumer: Means anyone who consumes vegetables. Not necessarily a VEGETARIAN. Herbivore: Mainly eats grass or plants. Not necessarily a VEGETARIAN. Plant-Eater: Mainly eats plants. Not necessarily a VEGETARIAN. Nonmeat-Eater: Does not eat meat. Most definitions do not consider fish, fowl or seafood to be meat. Animal fats and oils, bonemeal and skin are not considered meat. ---------------------------------------- 1.3 Terms that are confusing when talking about VEGETARIANs Kosher: Made according to a complex set of Jewish dietary laws. Does not imply VEGAN in any case. Does not imply OVO-LACTO VEGETARIAN in any case. Even KOSHER products containing milk products may contain some types of animals which are not considered 'meat'. Pareve/Parve: One category in KOSHER dietary laws. Made without meat or milk products or their derivatives. Eggs and true fish are pareve, shellfish are not. Nondairy: Does not have enough percentage of milkfat to be called dairy. May actually contain milk or milk derivatives. Nonmeat: Made without meat. May include eggs, milk, cheese. Sometimes even included animal fats, seafood, fish, fowl. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 2 Frequently Asked Questions 2.1 What is gelatin? Is there any alternative to it? Gelatin (used to make Jell-o and other desserts) is the boiled bones of animals. An alternative substance is called Agar-Agar, which is derived from seaweed. Another is made from the root of the Kuzu. Agar-Agar is sold in noodle-like strands, powder, or in long blocks, and is usually white-ish in colour. Some Kosher gelatines are made with agar-agar, some are not. Some things that are vegan that are replacing gelatin are: guar gum and carageenan. Only some 'emulsifiers' are vegan. 2.2 What can be substituted for eggs? A company called Ener-G makes a powdered egg-substitute that they claim is a suitable replacement for eggs in cooking. It costs about $5.00 (U.S.) for the equivalent of 9 or 10 dozen eggs, and it contains no animal products. 2 oz of soft tofu can be blended with some water and added to substitute for an egg to add consistency. One Tbsp flax seeds (found in natural food stores) with 3 Tbsp water can be blended for 2 to 3 minutes, or boiled for 10 minutes or until desired consistency is achieved to substitute for one egg. 1/2 mashed banana 1/4 cup applesauce or pureed fruit 1 tsp. soy flour plus 1 Tbsp. water to substitute for one egg. 2.3 What is rennet? Where is it found? How can it be avoided?? Rennet is derived from the stomach linings of calves. Rennet is used to make cheese. True VEGETARIAN cheeses do not have rennet in them, but a substitute. These substitutes can be either from vegetable sources, or may be created in a lab. Vegetable rennet is usually called 'rennin' to distinguish it from the animal-derived type. ** NOTE ABOUT SOY CHEESE: Some soy cheeses contain cassein which is a milk-product. The only true VEGAN cheeses in the U.S. are: SOYMAGE and VEGAN RELLA. In the U.K. there is also a vegan cheese: SCHEESE. 2.4 What is miso? Miso is made from fermented soybeans, and usually is found in a paste form. It is used as a flavouring agent, and for soup stocks. Storing Miso: If it is a dark miso, like hatcho miso, or red miso, it will keep for a while unrefrigerated, especially if it is 3 year miso. However, it does not hurt to refrigerate it. If it is sweet miso like yellow, mellow white, or sweet white, it will not keep unless refrigerated. Also, if the miso has been pasteurized, it should be kept refrigerated. Warning! Some Japanese brands of Miso contain fish stock! Nutritional value, per tablespoon: calories 36 g. protein 2 g. carbs 5 g. fat 1 g. sodium 629 mg. (from Pennington, "Food Values of Portions Commonly Used") 2.5 What is tofu? Tofu, or Soy Bean Curd, is a whitish substance made from soybeans. It has a variety of uses in vegetarian cooking because of its bland taste that soaks up other flavours. It comes in a couple of varieties, basically amounting to soft and firm style. Soft tofu is often used to make frostings for cakes, dips for chips and vegetables, while the firmer style is generally used in stir-fries and soups where it will hold its shape. 2.6 What is tempeh? Tempeh is a somewhat meatlike substance made from fermented soybeans. It is used in dishes like sloppy-joes, and has a rather strong taste compared to tofu. 2.7 What is TVP? Textured Vegetable Protein (or TVP) is a meat-like substance that is used to boost the nutritional content of meals, while still remaining relatively attractive-tasting. TVP may have a rather high fat content, so check the label. If it contains "defatted" soya flour, it should be low fat. 2.8 What is seitan? Seitan is a form of wheat gluten. It is a high protein, low fat, no cholesterol (of course) food that is usually found in the refrigerated section of most organic groceries/health food stores. It is usually near the tofu and typically comes in small tubs (like margarine tubs). It is brown and sometimes comes in strips 1/4 to 1/2 inches thick. Seitan is made from whole wheat flour which is mixed with water and kneaded. This dough undergoes a simple process of rinsing and mixing to remove the starch and some bran until a gluten is obtained. After boiling in water, this glutenous dough is called Kofu, which can be further processed in many ways. One of which is seitan. Kofu becomes seitan by simmering in a stock of tamari soy sauce, water and kombu sea vegetable. Seitan can be used in sandwiches, or to make dishes such as sweet and sour seitan, seitan stir fry, salisbury seitan, etc. 2.9 Can you feed a cat a vegetarian diet? A dog? Both animals can be fed a vegetarian diet, although neither is a vegan by nature -- dogs are omnivores, and cats are carnivores. While both dogs and cats belong to the class carnivora, this doesn't mean a lot, so does the panda bear and their diet is basically vegan. By nature cats and dogs wouldn't eat anything like what is commonly found in a can of pet food either. Special diets must be provided for cats, as they require an amino acid called taurine -- found in the muscles of animals. Synthetic taurine has been developed (and has been used in commercial (non vegetarian) pet foods for years), and vegetarian cats should be fed it as a supplement. Taurine deficiency can result in blindness and even death. Cats also require pre-formed vitamin A and arachidonic acid. The companies listed below provide all these essential ingredients in their cat foods. Ask your vet about changing your pet's diet. Products: Harbingers of a New Age 717 E. Missoula Ave, Troy MT 59935-9609 Phone: (406) 295-4944 [vegecat supplement for vegan or lacto-ovovegetarian cats] Wow-Bow Distributors 309 Burr Rd., East Northport, NY 11731 (516)449-8572, 1-800-326-0230 (outside of NY only) Dogs: 20lb. bag is $20.35 + shipping Cats: supplement, 15oz. is $15.95 Call: Nature's Recipe for location of a distributor near you. 1-800-843-4008 For cats with food allergies, Wysong has developed a hypoallergenic diet: Canine/Feline Anergen III, a vegetarian diet for food sensitive cats, contains special high-protein vegetables. Wysong Corporation Dept. CF, 1880 N. Eastman Ave., Midland, MI 48640. Natural Life Pet Products, Inc. (For dogs) Available from veterinarians and pet food centres. 1-800-367-2391 Natural Life Pet Products, Inc. Frontenac, Kansas 66762. Evolution Healthy Pet Food Evolution Diet Bldg., 287 East 6th Street, Suite 70, St. Paul, MN 51101 Tel : (651)228-0632 Fax : (651)228-0467 2.10 What is Nutritional Yeast? / Which ones provide B12? Nutritional yeast (saccharomyces cerevisiae) is a food yeast, grown on a molasses solution, and comes in powder or flake form. It has a pleasant-tasting, cheesy flavour and can be used directly on vegetables, baked potatoes, popcorn and other foods as a condiment. It is different from brewer's yeast or torula yeast. It can often be used by those sensitive to other yeasts. Ms. Carlyee Hammer at Universal Products (the parent company of Red Star, (414)-935-3910) indicates that ONLY ONE variety of Red Star nutritional yeast (product number T-6635+) is fortified with B12 at the level of 8 ug/g. Ms. Carlyee also claimed that other varieties of "nutritional" yeast contain vitamin B12 at less than 1 ug/g, but was unaware whether this was determined by microbial assay or not. Microbial assays for vitamin B12 are no longer considered reliable due to problems with the cross-reactivity of corrinoids. She indicated that Hazelton Laboratories (608-241-7210) did the assay. From the above two paragraphs, one might conclude that Red Star T-6635+ nutritional yeast, and probably no other variety, is a reliable dietary source of B12 at this time. 2.11 Are there vegan marshmellows available? Yes, from a company called Emes located in Lombard, IL, U.S.A. Phone: (708) 627-6204. The package lists gelatin, but it is not animal derived. Most "kosher gelatin" isn't vegetarian (it's either made from fish cartilage or supervised by a less strict rabbinic authority that permits regular gelatin (a recent issue of "Kashrus" has an article on kosher gelatin)), but Emes kosher gelatin is made from carrageenan (and you can often buy Emes "gelatin" separately). 2.12 What airlines serve vegetarian meals? Most airlines now serve vegetarian meals. Call the airline ahead of time to make your request, and it is suggested that you confirm your meal twice. For more information have a look, in Subject 3 below, at The World Guide to Vegetarianism. The '/other2' file contains details of individual airlines. 2.13 Should I be worried about getting enough protein on a vegetarian diet? The short answer is: "No, sufficient protein can be obtained by eating a variety of foods", but here is a longer explanation: Protein is synthesized by the human body out of individual amino acids. The body breaks down food into individual amino acids and then reassembles the proteins it requires. All amino acids must be present in the body to make proteins. Those that can be synthesized from other amino acids are called "unessential" amino acids. You can live on a diet deficient of these if you eat enough extra of the other amino acids to synthesize these. Those that cannot be synthesized from other amino acids are called "essential" amino acids and must be present in the diet. Protein that contains all essential amino acids is called "complete" protein. Protein that contains some, but not all essential amino acids is called "incomplete" protein. It used to be believed that all amino acids must be eaten at the same time to form complete proteins. We now know that incomplete proteins can be stored in the body for many days to be combined with other incomplete proteins. As long as all essential amino acids are in the diet, it does not matter if the proteins are complete or incomplete. The amount of protein recorded on food labels only lists the complete proteins. A product may contain much higher amounts of incomplete protein that is not listed. Combining such products may increase the total amount of protein beyond the levels expected. The 1989 revision of the FDA's RDA suggests a protein intake of 44-63 grams. Many scientists think this number is too high. Most scientists agree with this number. Here is another (from "Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine"): THE PROTEIN MYTH In the past, some people believed one could never get too much protein. In the early 1900's, Americans were told to eat well over 100 grams of protein a day. And as recently as the 1950's, health-conscious people were encouraged to boost their protein intake. The reality is that the average American takes in twice the amount of protein he or she needs. Excess protein has been linked with osteoporosis, kidney disease, calcium stones in the urinary tract, and some cancers. Despite all this, many people still worry about getting enough protein. The Building Blocks of Life: People build the proteins of their bodies from amino acids, which, in turn, come from the proteins they eat. Protein is abundant in nearly all of the foods people eat. A varied diet of beans, peas, lentils, grains, and vegetables contains all of the essential amino acids. Animal products are high in protein, but are undesirable because of their high fat and cholesterol content. Fat and cholesterol promote heart disease, cancer, and many other health problems. One can easily meet the body's protein requirements with plant foods. It used to be believed that various plant foods had to be eaten together to get their full protein value, but many nutrition authorities, including the American Dietetic Association, have determined that intentional combining is not necessary.1 As long as one's diet includes a variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables, protein needs are easily met. 2.14 What about Vitamin B12 on a vegan diet? The data on B12 is still coming in, so it is impossible to say "Its no problem....", however, the latest information suggests that acquiring enough B12 is not as problematic as it was once thought. If you are concerned about inadequate B12, there are many foods which are fortified with B12, in addition to vitamin pills. Here is the most recent information: From the book: Simply Vegan: Quick Vegetarian Meals, by Debra Wasserman and Nutrition Section by Reed Mangels, Ph.D., R.D. Published (1990/1991) by the Vegetarian Resource Group, P.O. Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203, (410) 366-VEGE. ISBN 0-931411-05-X Vitamin B12 Summary: The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low. Non-animal sources include Nutri-Grain cereal (1.4 ounces supplies the adult RDA) and Red Star T-6635+ nutritional yeast (1-2 teaspoons supplies the adult RDA). It is especially important for pregnant and lactating women, infants, and children to have reliable sources of vitamin B12 in their diets. Vitamin B12 is needed for cell division and blood formation. Plant foods do not contain vitamin B12 except when they are contaminated by microorganisms. Thus, vegans need to look to other sources to get vitamin B12 in their diet. Although the minimum requirement for vitamin B12 is quite small, 1/1000 of a milligram (1 microgram) a day for adults, a vitamin B12 deficiency is a very serious problem leading ultimately to irreversible nerve damage. Prudent vegans will include sources of vitamin B12 in their diets. However, vitamin B12 deficiency is actually quite rare even among long-term vegans. Bacteria in the human intestinal tract do make vitamin B12. However, the majority of these bacteria are found in the large intestine. Vitamin B12 does not appear to be absorbed from the large intestine. Normally, vitamin B12 is secreted into the small intestine along with bile and other secretions and is reabsorbed, but this does not add to the body's vitamin B12 stores. Since small amounts of vitamin B12 are not reabsorbed, it is possible that eventually vitamin B12 stores will be used up. However, we may be quite efficient at re-using vitamin B12 so that deficiency is rare. Some bacteria in the small intestine apparently produce vitamin B12 which can be absorbed. This is one possible explanation for why so few cases of vitamin B12 deficiency are reported. Perhaps our bacteria are making vitamin B12 for us. At this time, research is continuing on vitamin B12 requirements. Some researchers have even hypothesized that vegans are more efficient than the general public in absorbing vitamin B12. Certainly for other nutrients, such as iron, absorption is highest on low dietary intakes. However, these are only speculations. We need to look for reliable dietary sources for vitamin B12 until we can determine whether or not other sources can supply adequate vitamin B12. Although some vegans may get vitamin B12 from inadequate hand washing, this is not a reliable vitamin B12 source. Vegans who previously ate animal-based foods may have vitamin B12 stores that will not be depleted for 20 to 30 years or more. However, long-term vegans, infants, children, and pregnant and lactating women (due to increased needs) should be especially careful to get enough vitamin B12. Few reliable vegan food sources for vitamin B12 are known. Tempeh, miso, and seaweed often are labeled as having large amounts of vitamin B12. However, these products are not reliable sources of the vitamin because the amount of vitamin B12 present depends on the type of processing the food undergoes. Also, Victor Herbert, a leading authority on vitamin B12 states that the amount on the label cannot be trusted because the current method for measuring vitamin B12 in foods measures both active and inactive forms of vitamin B12. The inactive form (also called analogues) actually interferes with normal vitamin B12 absorption and metabolism. These foods may contain more inactive than active vitamin B12. The RDA (which includes a safety factor) for adults for vitamin B12 is 2 micrograms daily. Two micrograms of vitamin B12 are provided by 1 teaspoon of Red Star T-6635+ yeast powder or 1-1/2 teaspoons of mini-flake yeast or 2 rounded teaspoons of large-flake yeast. Of course, since vitamin B12 is stored, you could use larger amounts of nutritional yeast less often. A number of the recipes in this book contain nutritional yeast. Another alternative source of vitamin B12 is fortified cereal. Nutri-Grain cereal does contain vitamin B12 at this time and 1.4 ounces of Nutri-Grain, or a little less than 1 cup, will provide 2 micrograms of vitamin B12. We recommend checking the label of your favorite cereal since manufacturers have been known to stop including vitamin B12. New labeling laws do not require labels to include the actual amount of vitamin B12 in a food. However, added vitamin B12 will be listed under ingredients and you can write to the company inquiring about the amount of vitamin B12 in a serving. Other sources of vitamin B12 are fortified soy milk (check the label as this is rarely available in the US), vitamin B12 fortified meat analogues (food made from wheat gluten or soybeans to resemble meat, poultry or fish) [Midland Harvest products contain B12.], and vitamin B12 supplements. There are vitamin supplements which do not contain animal products. 2.15 How is "vegan" pronounced? The word was invented by the UK Vegan society in the 1940's They pronounced it "vee-gn". This is the most common pronunciation in the UK today. No one can say this pronunciation in "wrong", so this is also the politically correct pronunciation. In the US, common pronunciations are "vee-jan" and "vay-gn" in addition to "vee-gn", though the American Vegan Society says the correct pronunciation is as per the UK. The UK, and US and other places have other pronunciations. This is sometimes a touchy subject, so be prepared to change your pronunciation.... 2.16 Can I eat at fast food places like McDonalds or Taco-Bell? Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. Many Companies allow individual stores to decide part of their menu, or the ingredients used. In general, you should: 1. Ask for a nutrition information booklet. Asking an employee may not be enough. 2. If the food in question contains an undesired element, ask if it can be substituted for, or deleted altogether. 3. Fill out a comment card, if you think their menu does not have enough selection. If the company receives enough of these, they may decide to follow up on them. 4. Taco-Bell do not use lard anymore in their cooking. 2.17 Is Maple Syrup vegetarian/vegan? Yes, rumours abound about maple syrup containing pork fat. The US vegan society has checked all known sources and found that they are all suitable for vegans. 2.18 Is beer or other alcoholic beverages vegetarian/vegan? Finings are substances often added to beer (especially British beer or "bitter") or wine during fermentation to help clarify out particles and yeast, leaving the finished product clear. Finings are not present in the finished product in any significant quantity, their purpose is to settle out of the product, not stay in suspension. OTOH, if a chemical analysis were to be performed, there would probably be a few molecules of a fining agent still to be found. Some finings are animal derived, the most common are isinglass, made from the dried swim bladders of sturgeons, gelatin, egg or blood albumin (in wines) and caseinates (from milk, also used in wines). However many non-animal derived sources also exist, the commonest ones being bentonite (clay), Irish Moss (a seaweed), silicon dioxide and polyclar. Beer brewed according to the Reinheitsgebot (German purity law) is not prohibited from using finings since it was generally assumed that finings were not present in the finished product. Animal products are also sometimes used to alter the flavour of the wine/beer or control the head on a beer. See the rec.food.drink.beer FAQ for more details (where a lot of this has been stolen.-) Most spirits/mixers are suitable for vegans, common exceptions include some vodkas (may be cleared through bone charcoal) and Campari (contains cochineal, an insect derived colouring). 2.19 Is sugar vegetarian/vegan? Some refined sugars use bone charcoal as a decolourant. In the UK Tate and Lyle and Billingtons sugars are free of animal substances. British Sugar, trading as Silver Spoon (the largest UK supplier) state that their white sugar is vegan but they cannot guarantee their brown sugars as some bone charcoal may be used by their suppliers. No data is presently available concerning sugar in other countries. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 3 Other sources of information on the Net The most prominent World Wide Web (WWW) index to online vegetarian information is the Vegetarian Pages - http://www.veg.org/veg/ An ftp site where you can get some vegetarian information is: cadadmin.cadlab.vt.edu The network address for another vegetarian list: VEGLIFE@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (internet) or VEGLIFE@VTVM1 (BitNet). It is a LISTSERV type list. To subscribe, send mail to email@example.com with the command "sub veglife Your Full Name" in the body. Also try the commands "help" and "index veglife". The network address for a vegan list: VEGAN-L@envirolink.org It is a LISTPROC type list. To subscribe, send mail to firstname.lastname@example.org with the command "sub VEGAN-L Your Full Name" in the body. Also try the commands "help" and "index VEGAN-L". An ftp site where you can get some vegetarian recipes: bitnic.educom.edu the recipes are in the nicbbs.391 subdirectory and have a filename of VEG_RECI and a filetype of either DIGEST, INDEX, or VOLxxxxx. Note that this is a VM system so you MUST do the cd nicbbs.391 before you do anything after logging in as anonymous, otherwise you will have no working directory. The World Guide to Vegetarianism is a 14-part listing of vegetarian restaurants, vegetarian-friendly restaurants, natural food stores, vegetarian organizations, etc. Each part is posted on an independent (approximately quarterly) schedule to rec.food.veg, rec.food.veg.cooking, rec.answers, and news.answers. You can obtain the latest officially posted copy of this guide by sending an e-mail to email@example.com with any combination of the following lines in your message body: send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/index send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/usa1 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/usa2 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/usa3 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/usa4 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/usa5 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/california1 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/california2 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/california3 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/canada1 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/canada2 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/europe1 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/europe2 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/other1 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide/other2 send usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/faq (you're reading it now) The Guide is also available via anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu in the directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/guide. The FAQ for rec.food.veg is in the file /pub/usenet/news.answers/vegetarian/faq. On the WWW, the Guide may be found in easy-to-use HTML format using the following URL for the Vegetarian Pages: http://www.veg.org/veg/ For submitting updates to this document, the most preferred way is by using forms accessed via this WWW site. An ftp site for a list of Indian restaurants (in the US): csseq.cs.tamu.edu under ~/pub/indian Vegetarian recipes can be found in the newsgroup rec.food.veg.cooking. This newsgroup usually breaks down all recipes into VEGAN, OVO, LACTO and OVO-LACTO categories. A good WWW site to peruse and find out more information is: http://www-sc.ucssc.indiana.edu/~nazhuret/Internet/Vegsites/index.html rec.food.veg.cooking is being archived at sunSITE.unc.edu in the directory: pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/discussion-groups/ newsgroups/rec.food.veg.cooking Vegetarian Resource Group, c/o firstname.lastname@example.org, will answer questions related to vegetarianism. For a list of other resources available take a look at the Internet section in '/other2' in the above World Guide to Vegetarianism. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 4 Addresses and Phone Numbers 4.1 Vegetarian and Vegan Groups: Australia: Vegan Society of Australia PO Box 85, Seaford, VIC 3198. Phone (03) 862-1686 Australian Vegetarian Society (NSW) PO Box 65, Paddington NSW 2021, Ph. (02) 698 4339; Fax (02) 310 5365 Email; email@example.com Australian Vegetarian Society (ACT) PO Box 1786, Canberra ACT 2601, Ph. (06) 247 2882; Fax (06) 248 5343 Vegetarian/Vegan Society of Queensland PO Box 400, South Brisbane QLD 4101, (07) 300 1274; Fax (07) 300 9320 Vegetarian and Natural Health (NQ) PO Box 1698, Aitken Vale QLD 4814, Ph (077) 75 3465 Australian Vegetarian Society (Vic) PO Box 220, North Melbourne VIC 3051, Ph (03) 329 1374 Vegetarian Society of Western Australia PO Box 220, North Perth WA 6006, Ph/fax (09) 275 5682; Ph (09) 474 2172 Email; firstname.lastname@example.org Vegetarian Society of South Australia PO Box 46, Rundle Mall, Adelaide SA 5000, Ph (08) 261 3194 The Vegan Society (NSW) PO Box 467, Broadway, NSW 2007. Phone (02) 436-1373 Organization For Farm Animal Liberation PO BOX E65, East Parramatta, NSW 2150. Phone (02) 683 5991 (AH) The Jewish Vegetarian Society (NSW) C/- Tom Kramer 95/97 The Boulevarde, Strathfield, NSW 2135. Phone (02) 642-3110 (AH) or (02) 683 5991 (BH) The Australian Natural Hygiene Society, "Hygia" 31 Cobar Road, Arcadia, NSW 2159. Phone (02) 653-1115 or (02) 651-2457 Tableland Vegetarian Society PO Box 25, Millaa Millaa, QLD 4886 Canada: Canada EarthSave Society Suite 103 - 1093 West Broadway, Vancouver, BC, V6H 1E2 Phone (604) 731-5885. Canada Earthsave describes itself as "an educational non-profit organization that promotes awareness of the environmental and health consequences of our food choices. The Vegetarian Dining Club of Ottawa contact ba285@FreeNet.Carleton.Ca, or, Tel:(613)729-7282 Germany: AUTONOME TIERRECHTS-AKTION (ATA), c/o Autonomes Zentrum Alte Bergheimer Str. 7a 69115 Heidelberg Phone: (prefix) (0)6221-385702 ANIMAL PEACE e.V. Prachter Str. 1 57589 Pracht Tel: (+49)2292/40014 Fax: (+49)2292/40016 MUT - MENSCHENRECHT UND TIERRECHT e.V. Grueneburgweg 154, 60323 Frankfurt Phone: (prefix) (0)69-559589 VEGANE OFFENSIVE RUHRGEBIET c/o CILA, Braunschweiger Str. 22, 44145 Dortmund VEGETARIER BUND DEUTSCHLAND Blumenstr. 3, 30159 Hannover, Phone and Fax: (prefix) (0)511-3632050 They publish the paper "DER VEGETARIER" also see http://envirolink.org/arrs/projects/adn_action/guide/Germany/all.html Netherlands: Nederlandse Vegetarirsbond (Dutch Vegetarian Society), Larenseweg 26, 1221 CS Hilversum, tel 035-6834796, fax 035-6834813 PETA Nederland, PO Box 810, 2501 CV Den Haag, tel. 070-3563130 Nederlandse Vereniging voor Veganisme (Dutch vegan Society), Postbus 1087, 6801 BB Arnhem, tel 026-4420746 Orpheus, Animal friendly BBS, +31 (0)20 4941119 (24h/d, 28k8) Proefdiervrij, the biggest society against vivisection in the Netherlands. http://www.proefdiervrij.nl/engels/engels.htm Digidorp Vegatopia (digital village Vegatopia) at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jlieftin/ Dutch magazine for vegatarians: Sla! (salad). Available at all magazine stands in Holland, issue every 2 months. Recipes, interviews and food info. More info: email@example.com Scandinavia: Vegetarisk Information, Valborg Alle 34, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark, tel. +45 31 17 99 11 Dansk Vegetar-Forening, Borups Alle 131, DK-2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark, tel. +45 38 34 24 48 (old society - not easy to get in contact with...) Vegetarianerforeningen, att. Paal Thorbjoernsen, Smedgata 7, N-0651 Oslo, Norway, tel. +47 22 68 88 18 Svenska Vegetariska Foereningen, Tjaerhovsgatan 1, Box 4256, S-102 66 Stockholm, Sweden, tel. +46 87 02 11 16 (9-11) United Kingdom: The Vegetarian Society of the U.K. Parkdale, Dunham Road, Altringham, Cheshire, WA14 4QG (061)928-0793 (country code 44, for overseas callers) publishes "The Vegetarian" -- yours with membership The Vegan Society 7 Battle Road, St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex TN37 7AA Phone: (0424) 427393 publishes "The Vegan" quarterly, free with membership VIVA! PO Box 212 Crewe Cheshire CW1 4SD London Vegans hold monthly meetings on the last Wednesday of every month
at Millman Street Community Rooms, 50 Millman Street, London WC1 . The meetings usually run from 18.30 to 21.30 and they usually have guest speakers. All are welcome. In addition to the monthly meetings they have regular trips to restaurants and monthly walks. United States: American Vegan Society 501 Old Harding Highway, Malag, NJ 08328 (609)694-2887 publishes "Ahimsa" magazine. North American Vegetarian Society P.O. Box 72, Dolgerville, NY 13329 (518)568-7970 publishes "Vegetarian Voice" Vegetarian Resource Group P.O. Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203 (410)366-8343 publishes "Vegetarian Journal" Hotline for Vegetarian's questions: (410)366-VEGE Vegetarian Awareness Network: 1-800-USA-VEGE, (615)558-8343 in Nashville, TN Vegetarian Times Bookshelf P.O. Box 446, Mt. Morris, IL 61054 (312)848-8100 Other European: E U R O P E A N V E G E T A R I A N U N I O N (EVU) -------------------------------------------------------- Office: Vondelstraat 9A2, NL-1054 GB Amsterdam Phone/Fax: 0031-206169146 E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org Information and Contacts in Europe: Denmark : Henrik Hedegard, Olivenvej 57, DK-6000 Kolding Belgium : Vegetariersbond vzw, Koewacht 16A, B-9190 Stekene England : Vegetarian Society (UK), Parkdale, Dunham Road, Altrincham, Cheshire WA14 4QG England : VIVA! Juliet Gellatly, PO Box 212, Crewe, Cheshire, CW1 4SD England : Oxford Vegetarians, 57 Sharland Close, Grove Oxon, OX12 0OAF Finland : Elavan Ravinnon Yhdistys Ry.,Kasarminkatu 19A, SF-00130 Helsinki France : Jean Montagard, Chemin Combe Nicette, F-06330 Roquefort-les-Pins France : Gertrud Krueger, Rue Brandmatt 22, F-68380 Metzeral Italy : Associazione Vegetariana Italiana, Via Bazzini 4, I-20131 Milano Lithuania : Eduardas Mickevicius, Antakalnio 67-17, LIT-2040 Vilnius Netherlands: Nederlandse Vegetariersbond, Larenseweg 26, NL-1221 CM Hilversum Netherlands: Nederlandse Vereiniging voor Veganisme, Postbus 1087, NL-6801 BB Arnheim Ireland : Vegetarian Society of Ulster, 66 Ravenshill Gardens, Ballynafeigh, Belfast Norway : Norges Vegetariske Landsvorbun, Munkedamsveien 3B, N-0161 Oslo 1 Austria : Oestereichische Vegetarier-Union, E. Laupert, Brucknerstrasse 59/18, A-8010 Graz Poland : Krystyna Chomicz-Jung, Gdanska 2m.97, PL-01-633 Warszaw Romania : Dr. Mircea Matusan, Str. Costei no 12, RO-3400 Cluj-Napoca Russia : Tatyana Pavlova, Volsky bulvar d39 k3 kv23, RUS-109462 Moscow Sweden : Vegetariska Foreningen, Box 4256, S-10266 Stockholm Sweden : Ulla Troeng, Klovervagen 6, S-61700 Mariefred Switzerland: "regeneration" Edwin Heller, Schwarzenbachweg 16, CH 8049 Zurich Switzerland: Schweizer Verein f. Vegetarismus, Renato Pichler, Postfach, CH-9466 Sennwald Slowakia : Vegetarianska spolocnost, Prazka 9, SK-81104 Bratislava Spain : Spanish Vegan Society, Apartado Postal 38127, E-28080 Madrid Contact to the EVU: Hildegund Scholvien, Friedhofstrasse 12, 67693 Fischbach, Germany - Phone: 06305-272, Fax: 06305-5256 The World Guide to Vegetarianism (see Subject 3 above) lists all all known relevant organisations under the appropriate country. 4.2 Cruelty-free products information Amberwood Route 1 Box 206, Milner, GA 30257 (404)358-2991 The Body Shop -- in local shopping centers some of its products may contain dairy Beauty Without Cruelty 17 SW. 12th St., New York, NY, 10011 P.O. Box 19373 San Rafael, CA 94913 (415)382-7784 Compassionate Consumer P.O. Box 27, Jericho, NY 11753 Heart's Desire 1307 Dwight Way, Dept C, Berkeley CA 94702 Humane Street USA 467 Saratoga Ave. #300, San Jose, CA 95129 Spare the Animals P.O. Box 233, Tiverton, RI 02878 Vegan Street Company P.O. Box 5525, Rockville, MD PETA: write for a free list of companies. YOUR BODY, Unit 53, Milmead Industrial Estate, Mill Mead Road, London N17 9QU tel: 081-808-6948 fax: 081-801-1611 (vegan) MARTHA HILL Ltd., The Old Vicarage, Laxton, Corby, Northants, NN17 3AT tel: 0780-450259 (24 hour) fax: 0780-450398 advice line: 0780-450284 (8am-5pm Mon-Fri) (uses honey in some of the products) Veganline, 2 Avenue Gardens, London SW14 8BP sell cheap leather- substitute jackets mailorder. They do despatch work for other vegan companies: 0181 369 3535 (HTTP://WWW.musonix.demon.co.uk.veganline) MOKO, Unit 12, Four Ashes Insustrial Estate, Station Rd, Four Ashes, West Midlands WV10 7DB sell cheapish leather substitute shoes and jackets: 01902 798 988 UK leather substitutes are covered by a new page on the world wide web: HTTP://musonix.demon.co.uk.faq MUT - MENSCHENRECHT UND TIERRECHT e.V. Grueneburgweg 154, 60323 Frankfurt Phone: (prefix) (0)69-559589 Further US sources are listed in The World Guide to Vegetarianism file '/usa1'. See Subject 3 above. 4.3 Non-leather shoe outlets See the posting "FAQ:Leather Alternatives" in rec.food.veg for a complete list of non-leather products or look at: http://ursula.ee.pdx.edu/~alf/html/veg-leather-alt.html or contact Tom Swiss on email@example.com 4.4 Mail Order Book Outlets The Mail Order Catalog P.O. Box 180, Summertown, TN 38483 1-800-695-2241 or 615-964-2241 or email firstname.lastname@example.org EarthSave 1-800-362-3648 Vegetarian Resource Group, P.O. Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203 (410)366-VEGE or mail email@example.com Further US sources are listed in The World Guide to Vegetarianism file '/usa1'. See subject 3 above. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 5 Recommended Literature 5.1 Cookbooks The Vegan Cookbook, Alan Wakeman and Gordon Baskerville London, Faber and Faber, 1986; this has basic as well as complex stuff. Friendly Foods, Brother Ron Pickarski, Berkely, Ten Speed, 1991, vegan. Laurel's Kitchen Moosewood (all selections) The Complete Vegetarian Cuisine by Rose Elliot; many dishes are vegan. Fast Vegetarian Feasts by Martha Rose Shulman Tassajara Cooking; cooking made simple! The Vegetarian Epicure I and II by Anna Thomas American Whole Foods Cookbook The How to Overthrow Any Government Without Violence Cookbook by James P. Martin; vegan cookbook, may be out of print The Joy of Cooking Naturally by Peggy Dameron; vegan, Seventh Day Adventist (but not 'preachy'), fairly low-fat, includes honey. Country Life Vegetarian Cookbook ed. by Diana J. Fleming; see above. Of These Ye May Eat Freely; see above, special nightshade-free section. The Art of Indian Vegetarian Cooking by Yamuna devi Eastern Vegetarian Cooking by Madhur Jaffrey Cooking from an Italian Garden plb. by HBJ The Cranks Cookbook; recipes from London restaurant "Cranks" The Findhorn Cookbook by Barbara Friedlander; feeds 1 to 100... The Apartment Vegetarian Cookbook by Lindsay Miller Back to Eden by Jethro Kloss; definitive herb book with recipes. Bean Banquets from Boston to Bombay by Patricia R. Gregory Neither Fish Nor Fowl by Sarah Beattie. Eat More, Weigh Less by Dean Ornish, M.D. The Seventh-Day Diet, "How the 'healthiest people in America' live better, longer, slimmer -- and how you can too", by Chris Rucker and Jan Hoffman. Random House, New York, 1991. ISBN 0-394-58473-2. 5.2 Non-Fiction Diet for a New America Diet for a Small Planet Animal Liberation The MacDougal Plan and The MacDougal Program A Vegetarian Sourcebook by Keith Akers Vegan Nutrition: Pure and Simple by Micheal Klaper, MD Pregnancy, Children, and the Vegan Diet by Micheal Klaper, MD Vegan Nutrition, a survey of research by Gill Langley MA PhD The Vegetable Passion by Janet Barkas; history of vegetarianism. Simply Vegan by Debra Wasserman, $12.00 from VRG, Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203 THE VEGAN GUIDE TO NEW YORK CITY now in its fourth printing is a detailed directory of reviews to more than 100 restaurants in Manhattan and Brooklyn serving delicious meals without any animal products. Hailed in NEWSDAY, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, VEGETARIAN TIMES and VOGUE, the Guide is your key to vegetarian and vegan cuisine in the restaurant capital of the world. To order, send $4.78 (USA) or $8.00 (world) to Max Friedman, 2231 McKinley Street, Berkeley, CA 94703. The animal rights FAQ and lots of other information is available from: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Vegetarian/ or from Donald Graft on: firstname.lastname@example.org 5.3 Travel & Restaurant Books rec.food.veg World Guide to Vegetarianism. See listing in above Subject 3 of this FAQ for details. Vegetarian Journal's Guide to Natural Foods Restaurants in the U.S. and Canada. 1993. ISBN 0-89529-571-7. $11.95. By the Vegetarian Resource Group, PO Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203. Tel. (410) 366-VEGE. Lists restaurants, vacation spots, camps, vegetarian organizations. The Vegan Society's "The Vegan Holiday and Restaurant Guide" (concentrating on England, Scotland and Wales). "Europe on 10 Salads a Day" by Mary Jane and Greg Edwards Mustang Publishing, P.O. Box 3004, Memphis, TN, 38173. Cost: $9.95 (U.S.) plus $1.50 postage. Includes: prices, cover charges, hours, addresses, and credit card acceptance, for restaurants in most European countries. 5.4 Periodicals Good Medicine, PCRM, PO Box 6322, Wash. DC 20015 (202) 686-2210 North American Vegetarian Society (Vegetarian Voice magazine) $18 US/$21 foreign, NAVS, PO Box 72, Dolgeville, NY 13329 Vegetarian Times, (800) 435-9610 or (708) 848-8100 Vegetarian Gourmet, Chitra Publications, 2 Public Avenue, Montrose, PA The Vegan, The Vegan Society, 7 Battle Road, St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex TN37 7AA, UK. Ahimsa, American Vegan Society, 501 Old Harding Highway, Malag, NJ 08328. (609) 694-2887 Vegetarian Journal, Vegetarian Resource Group, P.O. Box 1463, Baltimore, MD 21203. (410) 366-8343 BBC Vegetarian Good Food Guide, P.O. Box 425, Woking GU21 1GP, UK -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 6 Animal Rights Organizations Humane Society of the U.S. 2100 L Lt., N.W., Washington DC 20037 (USA) Posters against animal research available. FARM (Farm Animal Reform Movement) Box 30654 Bethesda MD 20824 Phone: 800-MEATOUT e-mail: email@example.com web: http://envirolink.org/arrs/farm publishes quarterly newsletter and informational handouts. PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) P.O. Box 42516, Washington, DC 20015 (USA) publishes "Cruelty-free Shopping Guide" and informational literature. National Anti-Vivisection Society 53 W. Jackson Blvd., Suite 1550, Chicago, IL 60604 (USA) (312)427-6065 Free Cruelty-free products listing. Also check the animal rights FAQ available from: http://envirolink.org/arrs/index.html or from Donald Graft on firstname.lastname@example.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 7 Issues 7.1 Rainforest beef -- Two different looks at the situation. Hamburger chains frequently get blamed for deforestation in Latin America. This isn't really true, and saying it over and over just makes us look bad, since knowledgable carnivores can just refute it. The situation is this: in Brazil in particular, but throughout the region, governments, attempting to repay crippling foreign loans, sell/give away land to 'developers' at fire sale prices as long as they do something to 'develop' the land. The cheapest way to do this is to clear cut and use the land for cattle pasture. Thus cattle grazing is a main cause of deforestation. The problems w/going from this to blaming the Whopper are: as the knowledgable meat-eater will tell you, most Latin American cattle have hoof and mouth disease and just waste land for the sake of wasting land because they can't be sold for beef. As a result, the Amazon is a net beef importer, and second, rainforest land is so poor that it's only suitable for grazing for a few years. An excellent book on this and other rainforest issues is _The_Fate_of_the_Forest_ by Susana Hecht and Alexander Cockburn. Other sources indicate that, while South America IS a net importer of cattle (ignoring the huge quantities of processed meat product exported from Argentina and Brazil to the U.S.), central america does export live cattle to the U.S. These cows are labeled as U.S. when they cross the country line. Another important aspect to this is that soya cattle feed, grown on rain forest plots, is exported in huge quantities to feed the cattle in other countries. It is not possible to say that the beef burgers in the U.S. are not directly or indirectly responsible for the destruction of the rain forest. It is not possible to say that the U.S. imports NO beef from the rain forest. Even if the cow herself has not been on rain forest land, the food that she has eaten most likely has. 7.2 Hidden Animal Products See the separate posting in rec.food.veg, for a much larger list of substances derived from animals. The subject is "LIST OF SUBSTANCES DERIVED FROM ANIMALS". It is very difficult to avoid animals products in this 'modern day and age'. Here is a list of some common things that surprisingly contain animal derivatives and others that are safe. CASEIN: This is a product made when milk is heated with an acid, like lactic acid. This stuff mostly occurs in "no-lactose" soy cheeses like Soyco, Soy Kaas, AlmondRella, Zero-FatRella, HempRella, and TofuRella Slices. The labels say "lactose-free" (lactose is another milk derivative), but that doesn't mean they are therefore vegan, as we used to incorrectly assume. Soymage soy cheese is 100% vegan, but it's kind of gross. Vegan-Rella is also totally vegan. Casein is also used in plastics, adhesives, and paint manufacturing. CASEINATE: Casein mixed with a metal, like calcium caseinate or sodium caseinate. CHEWING GUM: Some chewing gums contain glycerine. Wrigleys gum contains a vegetarian source of glycerine. ENVELOPES: Apparently most envelopes have a synthetic glue on them, not an animal or fish based glue. MARGARINES: Can contain fish and other marine oils. Many margarines contain whey. MOHAIR: From goats. They can be sheared or skinned. NOUGAT: Usually contains gelatine. ORGANIC: Dried blood, bone/hoof meal and fish meal can all be used a fertilizers etc. Try finding out about Veganic Gardening as an alternative, by using seaweed fertilizers which are widely available. PASTA: May contain egg, especially if fresh. Some pasta in Italy contains squids's ink; this can easily be recognized because the pasta is black. PASTES: Glues. May be animal or fish derived. PASTRY: Animal fats used in most shop-baked pies etc. Check ingredients. PHOSTATES: Derived from glycerol and fatty acids. May be from animal bones too. PHOTOS: Developing paper contains gelatine. POSTAGE STAMPS: These do not contain an animal or fish glue. PROGESTERONE: A hormone. May have been taken from the urine of a pregnant mare, and could be used in hormone creams, etc. RENNET: An enzyme taken from the stomach of a newly killed calf. Used in the cheese making process. Look for rennin or the words "made without animal rennet". RUBBER: Processed with animal products. SHORTENING: Can be made from animal fats. Used in the food industry especially pastries and biscuits. SOAP: Most soaps are not vegetarian because of the tallow (animal fats) used in their production. STEARATE: This usually comes in the form of _calcium stearate_, and it is found in hard candies like Gobstoppers and Sweetarts as well as other places. It comes from stearic acid, which usually is derived from tallow, or animal fat. Stearate is also used in vinyls (like car seats) and plastics. SUEDE: Leather. SWEETS: Watch out for gelatine, eg.: wine gums. Nearly all mints eg.: Polo, Trebor, Extra Strong etc contain gelatine. See also Nougat. VIOLINS: Traditionally violins are stuck together with an animal based glue. The bows are usually made from horse hair. WHEY: Liquid part of Milk 7.3 Names of animals versus names of animal based foods It is a common misconception, and often argued wrongly by vegetarians,that the use, in the English language, of pig/pork, calf/veal, cow/beef, sheep/mutton etc. has something to do with meat-eaters pretending they're not eating animals. This is not the case. In mediaeval England the peasants were Anglo-Saxon but the aristocracy was Norman-French, this followed the conquest of England by William of Normandy (France) in 1066. The aristocracy compelled the peasants to looks after the animals but rarely allowed them eat any meat (see the Food in England thread for more details). The peasants called the animals by the Anglo-Saxon names - pig, calf, sheep etc. but the aristocracy, who ate the meat, called it by the French names for the same animals - porc (pig), veau (calf), boeuf (ox or bullock), mouton (sheep). This got Anglicised slightly over the centuries but this distinction between these animals and the meat has remained in every English speaking country around the world. Animals which were not commonly eaten by the Norman-French aristocracy, eg chicken, turkey, rabbit etc, have the same name for the animal and the meat. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --- Michael Traub, email@example.com FAQ keeper rec.food.veg & VEGAN-L To err is human, to moo bovine. -- Michael Traub firstname.lastname@example.org "I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals" - Thoreau